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Post by CotF | Cohenski on Jul 10, 2013 19:30:37 GMT 1
France's musket xbow double rax 7 minute push is now like a 7:15 push. It is still very good. I like where France is now. They can still be aggressive as most of the civs they would not otherwise be able to be aggressive again like ports or british now have nerfs.
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icourt
AOE III: TAD/TWC
Posts: 88
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Post by icourt on Jul 12, 2013 16:44:00 GMT 1
Updated some of this for 1.9. Added the Aztec war hut old han thing we all talked about. It effects only coyotes, puma, and mace.
Changed up Ottomans quite a bit.
I think I got the french vill train time thing working?
Updated Map Sets.
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icourt
AOE III: TAD/TWC
Posts: 88
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Post by icourt on Jul 13, 2013 16:13:04 GMT 1
I've been playing Aztec on 1.2 and I don't understand why we made the changes we did... Eagles are extraordinarily abusive with Coyotes and Arrow Knights late game, and I haven't had any units freezing up at all. And skulls seem easy enough to deal with if you scout out the rush.
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icourt
AOE III: TAD/TWC
Posts: 88
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Post by icourt on Jul 17, 2013 6:04:23 GMT 1
So I got the 5% nerf on Wakina into effect. Their base damage is set to 15.2 which results in exactly 19 attack in age 3, and 22.8 (will read as 23 in game) damage in age 4.
CDB train time is working exactly as expected. The game will say it's a 30 second train time but it will truly be 1.5 seconds.
You will need to check my strings on all these change and on things like the ruthlessness card and villager cards etc to make sure I got everything back into working order.
I'm not sure about that Skull Knight nerf either. Nick you say it's collecting mass amounts of wood treasures but it sounds like the treasures are the issue not the unit.
Also you should be rewarded for good creeping, and sometimes you may get an OP rush or FF or w/e out of it. That being said I agree some treasures need to come down or as I mentioned to Mike, be placed on team game only maps such as the 140f one. I think changing it is going to piss some people off, but if we just set it to team games only its influence is removed from 1's but it can still be enjoyed in team game laming.
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Post by CotF | Cohenski on Jul 28, 2013 7:31:07 GMT 1
Here's a list of things I would like to test:
In general: Make the advanced artillery card (upgrades falconets to field guns, mortars to howitzers) also upgrade culv (since it is an unused and non cost effective card) Make the 2 war canoes card into 3 war canoes so that it is comparable to the 2 caravel card. 2 caravels is 800 res in value and 3 war canoes is 750 and still lose in a fight. Make the 9 barbary corsair card into 10 (it is a card that is practically never used, and it probably ought to give the same number of barbary corsairs as a shipment of equal cost gives jaegers) Change arsonist cost to 250 coin from 300 (they are the worst priced merc currently and it makes the card for India I suggested changing later add up to the right number of resources)
British: Have manors build at the normal speed Germany: Make improved mercenary card into a team card (could make for some interesting team game strategies. Once again, I don't see this creating any imbalances. After all, if a team goes pure merc, you can always make spies.) Iro: Toms given 4.5 speed Team infantry LOS card currently boosts 8, I would propose having it boost by 10, the same as the card spain has which affects ALL units India: The 7 Rajput age 3 card to 8 Rajput (since we changed the price) Grazing card improved by a factor of 1.33 (since it is hopelessly slow right now) Sepoy resistance card cost changed to 1000f, 1000c, 1000w, and gives 2 consulate horse drawn cannons (makes it comparable to a revolution except that it also takes a card to compensate for the fact that you can make vills after sending the card. It probably wont be used much, but it could be a lot of fun for team games) 1 grove rickshaw, and 2 grove rickshaw cards also give a 5% woodcutting boost (since the cards are never currently used. Once again, they probably still won't be, but who knows what people might come up with) 8 Jat lancer card reduced cost to 1000 gold down from 1500 (comparable to Elmeti now which also cost 1000) 6 arsonists card to 8 arsonists (once again the card will probably not be used very much even with this, but right now it is positively the worst merc card in the game and maybe people will come up with cool strats using this new and improved card.) Japan: Change the 4 Yojimbo card to 5 yojimbo (currently tied with worst merc card in the game. This unit is awesome, but there are no good ways of making it.) Sioux: Onikare card (boosts dog soldier multiplier) moved to age 4 so people can fit it into their decks should they ever want to use it
Other things we talked about: Tashunke prowler glitch allows them to have full speed in stealth when switching to stealth from trample mode.
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Post by {PHX} Alaron on Jul 29, 2013 4:01:55 GMT 1
In response to Cohenski:
General changes: Don't really see any problems with any of these changes. Although keep in mind Arsonists are a more a siege unit than they are a combat unit. They have more siege than ronin: 140 vs 120.
British: This is probably necessary... Although I think some different builds are required as well in order to use Brits to their full potential now. And they're still pretty strong on Nilla with 10 pop houses and 20 build limit, so maybe 2-3s longer build time as opposed to 5s?
Germany: Don't really see any reason to change this card... What if the opposing team did a triple merc FI?! Just kidding. I feel like this could make certain things too strong... the card boosts 20%, and some mercs have ridiculous base stats. Even disregarding the potential imbalances, there's no real reason to change it, in my opinion.
Iroquois: I don't know about the tomahawk change to be honest... It's an interesting change and a good idea, but I feel like it may be giving Iro too much. They were already considered OP on a patch where they were pretty much the same as they are now.
As for the infantry card, I don't have any real problems with that either. I believe this card is also shared by Ottos?
India: Rajput card change makes sense.
I don't really think Grazing is worth balancing. Court and I were discussing this, and not only is the change difficult to make, but it's also a card that was formerly nerfed because it created too many imbalances. The nature of the card just makes it difficult to balance.
Sepoy Resistance (isn't it Sepoy Rebellion?)... I think this change would make it even more unusable than it currently is. Not only that, but where's the point in changing this card? Especially to give it a price of 3000 resources makes any strategies with this card as the centre point really... well, bad (granted, if such strategies exist they're probably really bad regardless of price).
In my opinion, the grove rickshaws don't really need to be changed. Adding a 5% woodcutting increase isn't going to make a big difference in their usability or usefulness.
As for the Jat Lancer card... 1 Jat Lancer is pretty much equal to 1 Elmeti in terms of usefulness. 7 speed vs 6 speed, 4x against infantry vs 3x against infantry, 40% ranged resistance. They're just much more specialized than Elmeti. I think 1000c for this card would be too cheap... but I'm not opposed to making it a little cheaper. Maybe 1250c or 1300c?
Arsonists... W/e. No opinion.
Japan: W/e. Never actually used Yojimbo before, tbh.
Sioux: Don't see the point. Might make it more usable in Treaty and NR, but what about Supremacy games? I don't see any point in moving the card to age 4. It's such a specialized card that if you intend to use it outside of Treaty and NR it might as well be more accessible.
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icourt
AOE III: TAD/TWC
Posts: 88
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Post by icourt on Jul 29, 2013 7:14:55 GMT 1
Germany: Don't really see any reason to change this card... What if the opposing team did a triple merc FI?! Just kidding. I feel like this could make certain things too strong... the card boosts 20%, and some mercs have ridiculous base stats. Even disregarding the potential imbalances, there's no real reason to change it, in my opinion. This could potentially be a lot of work since I have to add every merc tech to be effected by unit boosts and then add all the techs again so the price is adjusted. Iroquois: I don't know about the tomahawk change to be honest... It's an interesting change and a good idea, but I feel like it may be giving Iro too much. They were already considered OP on a patch where they were pretty much the same as they are now. Difference between RE Iro's and FP 1.3 Iro's currently. I'll list RE Iro's: • Hero regenerates HP at a faster rate. • Tomahawks hand attack is 14. • 7 Aenna card. • 1st Big Button Costs 500 food. • Conservative Tactics boosts Tomahawks, Aenna, and Mantlets. • Musket Riders have 30% Ranged Resistance. • Musket Riders bonus vs Artillery is 2.5. • Fast Age up to colonial is 10 seconds faster. • Starting Travois can build a stable. • No Steel Traps. • Farms Boost hunting, farm and berry gather rates. That being said, the potential for this Iro's to go from mediocre to over powered is pretty small. Their FF is wicked on 1.9. I don't really think Grazing is worth balancing. Court and I were discussing this, and not only is the change difficult to make, but it's also a card that was formerly nerfed because it created too many imbalances. The nature of the card just makes it difficult to balance. The biggest problem with this card is the difficulty in balancing it and even being able to test it. Adding just a small boosts doesn't make it worth sending as it still takes an extremely long time for it to pay off and that's if they units aren't moving. The effect only works if units are 100% idle. Now if you do boost it to a useful amount which it was when the game was released, it has the potential to snowball into an effect that gives India an unstoppable economy. It was nerfed I think twice after the game was released to the point it's just a useless card now. Even ES and the FP team didn't bother with this card because it's way to hard to deal with, and way too time consuming to find the sweet spot for it. It was just decided to leave it as a useless card and that was that. There's loads of useless cards in AOE3 and this just happens to be one of them. I can make the change if ya'll want it, but it's extremely hard to test, and could be extremely time consuming. As for the infantry card, I don't have any real problems with that either. I believe this card is also shared by Ottos? No. Ottoman only have team crate cards, team silk road, and team Spahi. Team LOS cards are Team Inquisition from Spain (+10 LOS). Team Scout Infantry from Iroquois (+8 LOS). Team Scout Cavalry from Russians (+5 LOS and 5% hp to cavalry).
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Post by PHX Alaron on Jul 29, 2013 9:48:07 GMT 1
Weren't Iro considered OP on FP 1.1? Cause that's the patch I was referring to.
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Post by CotF | Cohenski on Jul 29, 2013 16:50:31 GMT 1
In response to Cohenski: Iroquois:I don't know about the tomahawk change to be honest... It's an interesting change and a good idea, but I feel like it may be giving Iro too much. They were already considered OP on a patch where they were pretty much the same as they are now. India:Rajput card change makes sense. Sepoy Resistance (isn't it Sepoy Rebellion?)... I think this change would make it even more unusable than it currently is. Not only that, but where's the point in changing this card? Especially to give it a price of 3000 resources makes any strategies with this card as the centre point really... well, bad (granted, if such strategies exist they're probably really bad regardless of price). In my opinion, the grove rickshaws don't really need to be changed. Adding a 5% woodcutting increase isn't going to make a big difference in their usability or usefulness. As for the Jat Lancer card... 1 Jat Lancer is pretty much equal to 1 Elmeti in terms of usefulness. 7 speed vs 6 speed, 4x against infantry vs 3x against infantry, 40% ranged resistance. They're just much more specialized than Elmeti. I think 1000c for this card would be too cheap... but I'm not opposed to making it a little cheaper. Maybe 1250c or 1300c? Arsonists... W/e. No opinion. Japan:W/e. Never actually used Yojimbo before, tbh. Sioux:Don't see the point. Might make it more usable in Treaty and NR, but what about Supremacy games? I don't see any point in moving the card to age 4. It's such a specialized card that if you intend to use it outside of Treaty and NR it might as well be more accessible. I think the Iroquois change is definitely worth testing, I wouldn't worry too much about creating something overpowered when we can just change it back. Just as is, I think Iro need a bit more. Sepoy rebellion will be easier to send since its easier to get a surplus of 1k of every resource than to get 2k of just one, since you can more easily spend the surplus on units to defend yourself with the spread out resources but with 2k wood, you are very vulnerable for the time you are saving up. Plus the three cannons make the card something to fear whereas just sepoys are easy enough to kill. As for the Jat Lancer card, they have 400 less hp and 5 less hand attack. They are definitely a weaker unit that Elmeti, so I think 7 for 1000 gold is more than fair for an age 4 card.
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Post by CotF | Cohenski on Jul 29, 2013 16:51:19 GMT 1
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icourt
AOE III: TAD/TWC
Posts: 88
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Post by icourt on Jul 29, 2013 18:26:07 GMT 1
Weren't Iro considered OP on FP 1.1? Cause that's the patch I was referring to. No, they were mid tier FP 1.1. Only OP on ES/RE patches. Their colonial was a bit weak on 1.1, but they still had a rock solid fortress agenda. Right now it's still sort of the same boat for them, which is fine I guess. Some civs can really hurt them if they attempt to age, and their colonial currently can't keep up if they do play it out. Right now they are far to reliant on their war chiefs HP bonus. Their units aren't bad with it... but if the explorer is focus fired or they swing cav back to kill him, the diminishing returns effect is so great that their army just can't compete. If you do suggest boosting a colonial unit, you will probably need to bring the chiefs HP back down to 450.
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Post by {PHX} Alaron on Aug 3, 2013 19:43:34 GMT 1
For some reason I thought the Sepoy Rebellion card was free right now... but I still don't really understand the point of the change. I don't think it's going to make the card any better or usable, really.
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icourt
AOE III: TAD/TWC
Posts: 88
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Post by icourt on Aug 4, 2013 15:03:52 GMT 1
Now that 1.9 beta has been out about a week, how does the balance feel so far? I think it's pretty spot on apart from maybe manors being a bit too slow to build, and Iro's colonial still being slightly too weak.
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Post by {PHX} Alaron on Aug 5, 2013 4:29:07 GMT 1
Haven't actually even played it yet... Haven't been on much =/ And when I am I don't see anyone else really on either. Will have to wait a little while longer. It's kind of inconvenient that as soon as I get internet Nick loses internet... haha
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icourt
AOE III: TAD/TWC
Posts: 88
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Post by icourt on Aug 5, 2013 5:04:43 GMT 1
That's fine, I can give it another week. Trying to keep the changes pretty minimal at this point since I think we've found a good fit for most the civilizations.
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